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Also, I wish some ... ( 1 month ago by flipscratch81)

Also, I wish some people would defend their opinions rather than do the typical reactionary thing; that is, voting my posts down. I understand that Gould's interpretations make people emotional, but I do NOT think it is because of his phrasing. His phrasing is not great. His humming, legacy, gestures, reputation, technique, and tempo choices all scream unconventional. Gould was obsessed with Bach's technical genius, but I think he was relatively unmoved by his musical genius.

Emoción llevada al ... ( 1 month ago by debartzen)

Emoción llevada al último extremo.

What can be said or ... ( 1 month ago by pianogus)

What can be said or added to all that's been said about Glenn Gould. He is a genius madly and inexorably in love with music. How inspiring is that to all who love life and music.

Again, I agree with ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

Again, I agree with most of what you say, but at times for the wrong reasons. I mean, to me a piece of music need not depend on a performer to be emotionally expressive, provided the performer doesn't mutilate it of course. I just seem to be reiterating my points all over youtube and yes most of the time all I'm greeted with are thumbs down not a counter argument as I would have hoped for. You were an exception, but I must say there are rare, most as you said opt do 'typical reactionary thing'.

You know, you and ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

You know, you and the few others who've argued with me the point about the extend to which Baroque music is emotionally expressive has made me thing but, no matter how objectively or subjectively or openly I listen to Baroque music all I can feel is a sense of spirituality. It's almost perfectly beautiful music and in that lies an almost enigmatic feeling of aesthetic appreciation that really pulls at your heart strings but it's just not specific enough for me to call and emotion.

It's too grand, ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

It's too grand, it's too large a scale, it's too perfect for me to perceive Bach on a primitively emotional level. I can understand how Russeau's Naturalism was such a strong movement against Bach's music and there in to me lies the greatest strength of Baroque music and quite honestly I don't need to go beyond that to better appreciate Bach ( even though I must say I have tried). When it comes to Gould though, I agree with you completely. He was a great thinker, there's no denying that but...

...as you said too ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

...as you said too much of technician. However I must say when listening to him talk about Bach and his music you do sense that he does know Bach really was musically but all of it seemed to be cramped in a technical framework and in doing so, atleast to me, his phrasing at times seems to go in opposite directions to the music message Bach was trying to convey and Gould was trying to interpret. But as unconventional as it might be I like his choice of tempo in most cases. Anyway, good day.

Now that is ... ( 1 month ago by flipscratch81)

Now that is interesting. You say "spirituality". To me it is difficult to separate spirituality and emotion. For instance, in BWV 566, the fugue at the end is absolutely exuberant around the 9:30-10:00 mark. (NOT 565, 566) It truly paints joy and sounds like a celebration of life. This point in the music is more expressive to me than say another one of Chopin's countless Mazurkas, regardless of who's performing it. I certainly agree that a piece of music does not need a performer to...

...recognize the ... ( 1 month ago by flipscratch81)

...recognize the composition's intended expression whether it be the constructs of the harmony, rhythm, tempo markings, etc. I heard a very dry interpretation of the Waldstein Sonata once that nearly put me to sleep. I knew what Beethoven intended sure, but the performer had a very immature understanding of the music. Conversely, when I heard Christopher Herrick's BWV 543 prelude interpretation I teared up because of his sensitivity when the piece modulated to the major towards the end...

In other words, I ... ( 1 month ago by flipscratch81)

In other words, I guess I DO believe that in order for a piece to come alive it requires a great interpreter. Otherwise, it's just a perfunctory action much like data entry. And, ironically enough, I feel like Gould is the ultimate Bach data entry performer, only he really really enjoys the data entry part, and that's what we're watching...his love for Bach's data! haha

Data entry is ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

Data entry is actually a pretty accurate way of putting it. Yes, we certainly agree on how good or bad Gould is. I mean, what I value in him is his ability to somehow justify his methods. Methods that might not be as good as others, but none the less his reasoning behind is sound. In fact I quite like some of Glenn Gould's Romantic interpretations as opposed to the Bach he's so renowned for. I remember a few days ago I listened to his rendition of the first movement of the moonlight sonata...

It was the first ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

It was the first time in my life I managed to get pass the C sharp minor arpeggio without falling asleep. Of course you could argue that he was merely following Beethoven's tempo marking-more or less- but my point is he did do it and I liked it. When it comes to Bach though, just sometimes Gould has that tendency to sound like a MIDI playback through a relatively intelligence computer. Data entry, I suppose.

And now to the ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

And now to the topic where tempers are inevitably going to be tested; spirituality and emotion? More or less the same? Bach's BWV 565. Expressive, I would most certainly agree. Spiritual, undoubtedly (my remorse to all those who are blinded by that thick thick coating of very very bad media publicity). Emotions? Is a celebration of life, really an emotion? I mean, there are emotions associated with this but is it really the composers intention to attribute these associated emotions with the....

...music itself or ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

...music itself or rather the 'celebration' you allude to. The same goes to this spirituality I refer to. There are emotions attributed to it but the musical devices used aren't really to express emotion but rather to express something beyond that. It's almost like the Lutheran concept of music, to me. It alleviates your senses to this ecstatic level that really is an absolutely spirituality and in this transcendental spur I suppose we can experience anything.

Bach, as I'm sure ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

Bach, as I'm sure was Martin Luthor's intentions, experience God and you experience joy. A Chopin prelude doesn't do this. It's simply not Bach. It doesn't even attempt, nor will it ever accomplish, the elevating( It's 'elevate about, btw, not 'alleviate') function Baroque music does and in that sense that music is not subjective. You feel what Chopin wanted you to feel, not what you would. It's difficult music. Bach, on the other hand; his intentions are of no importance when it comes to...

...emotional ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

...emotional expressiveness. To me Bach is a vessel, of sorts. You can't describe or limit a Bach piece as merely sad or merry or depressing or agitating, you can't do that. You have to describe Bach in absolute musical terms because that is what he does. He uses music to transport us to 'God', so to speak, to transport us to that place where we really can experience anything, absolutely anything. That to me is spirituality in music. That to me is one of Bach's music's functions.

I for one cannot ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

I for one cannot put to words, or identify why certain pieces of Bach's affect me in certain ways and that is because it's a subjective process. It's not written in the music. It's not Bach's intention to express one emotion, but to give you means to express your own self in your own little private realm of perception. That's why I said Bach's music isn't emotionally expressive. It isn't. To me it just isn't. It has a lot of mind in it. I mean certain pieces might imply you should feel a...

...certain way that ... ( 1 month ago by TintedReasoning)

...certain way that doesn't mean that you ultimately feel it.That's just an intellectual expression of an emotion, nothing more.Much like the emotions a well tempered tuning system would make us yield to much of the intellectual expressiveness of Bach's is codified,ordered and planned out. But I am aware of the music beyond that, believe me I am. It's all beautiful and in that beauty we transcend the music. But beauty is something of the mind, not the heart. Anyways, good day. =)

Ha! Great ... ( 1 month ago by flipscratch81)

Ha! Great responses! And DEFINITELY worthy of a reply. Firstly, let me reiterate. I wasn't talking about 565, but 566!!!! 566. Listen to the 566 fugue. Ok, so you are being very specific. Spirituality and emotion are different. I understand that. I guess I do, that is. We could play a semantics or webster game, but the ultimate judge is the eye of the beholder. Sometimes these terms are interchangeable and sometimes they are not. You ostensibly think all the time the latter?

It's crazy. When I ... ( 1 month ago by flipscratch81)

It's crazy. When I listen to Bach it's as if I hear another great composer saying, "shit, I could do better, forget about all the sappy superficial stuff, can you hear this? can you really? b/c I don't care if you do or if you don't. I have a God to serve and kids to feed....bitch." That's what I hear if Liszt or Brahms really tried and got over their spoiled lives.

Then again, I could ... ( 1 month ago by flipscratch81)

Then again, I could be very unfair here. It's just, I grew up hearing the B minor sonata, hungarian rhapsody, tons of Brahms pieces, and so much romantic harmony. I also grew up hearing Bach in church. I had a fair choice. And now....what makes me emotional? well, Bach.

This is so ... ( 4 weeks ago by lumberjackv)

This is so beautiful. I am mesmerized.

SO am I.....I love ... ( 4 weeks ago by lifeisacrapp)

SO am I.....I love this guy:-D

I hear that when ... ( 3 weeks ago by FriendlyCroock)

I hear that when your mother first saw you, she decided to leave you on the front steps of a police station while she turned herself in....Bitch !